August 2024: Understanding the Pillar of Cloud

Steve:
On today's episode, you will come to understand the pillar of cloud in the wilderness in a way that you have never seen it before. Hello, and welcome to The BC Messenger Podcast. This is season three, episode one of The BC Messenger.

My name is Steve Hall. I'm here, as I am each month with my wife, Jennifer Hall. And this is august 2024. We are just entering into our third season of our podcast. And we are so glad you are here joining us for this third season.

Jennifer:
It was two years ago exactly that we started season one, episode one. And so we're celebrating our two year anniversary as we come to you again this month from our little podcast studio in the farmland of East Central Illinois. Thanks for joining us.

Steve:
And as always, we have our show notes that go right along with our podcast. And if you don't know about that, you will need to get on our email list. And we will send you an email once a month, has a link right on it. You click on that and we put together a beautiful web page that goes right along with the content that we talk about on this podcast. And the first thing that says on our show notes that you would see there is Psalm 83:18. "So that they will know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the most high over all the earth."

That really is our prayer and our heart's desire in all of the content that we bring to you each month on this podcast. We want to see the name of the Lord lifted up, that people may know that he is real, that his works in history are real. And boy, today we have an account that every child that's gone through Sunday School remembers and knows about. And we're going to give you, as I said a minute ago, an understanding of the science behind the pillar of cloud in the wilderness in a way that you have never seen before.

Jennifer:
It's going to be fascinating. And so we will set out on that journey here in just a minute. It was a friend of ours named Gail who posted this verse, Psalm 83:18, a couple weeks ago as we were working through some changes in our family and working on this next podcast episode. And I just thought, man, what a verse to just summarize an overarching goal for everything God gives you to do in life, you know, so that they may know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the most high over all the earth. And that's what we want to do. That's what we've been doing for the past two years on the podcast, showing you the reality of God's works in history and strengthening our faith, and really giving the skeptic some things to really have to reckon with as we present this Bible science research work.

Steve:
Well, right here at the beginning of the third season of this podcast of Real Science, Real Bible, Real History, and Real World, Jennifer, give us the rundown of today's content.

Jennifer:
Okay, so our featured topic is understanding the pillar of cloud. Then we have a quick look ahead, talking about some content coming to you in the near future here on the podcast. Then we have a brand new section that we are adding in, "As a Matter of Fact." That's the name of the new section. We are going to present some common misconceptions when it comes to science and the Bible, and the reality of the situation, as a matter of fact. So we have the first segment on that today.
We have our aging research section with some very interesting perspective to share on that today. I'm excited to get to that. And then we will wrap up with Helen's View, where she shares a look behind the scenes every month at the work going on here at The Biblical Chronologist, which is funded and brought to you by Aardsma Research and Publishing.

Steve:
Well, there are many pictures that you can have in your mind when you think about the story of the Exodus, of course. You can think about the parting of the Red Sea. Maybe that would be the first thing that might come to your mind. You could think about the Pharaoh and the plagues. But I would say one of the first things that might come to your mind when you think of the story of the Exodus would be that giant pillar of a cloud in that wilderness, leading these people around, or the pillar of fire. If I have a memory in my mind of the flannel graph lessons in Sunday School, or pictures in a children's Sunday School book, when I think of the Exodus, I just can see that pillar of cloud.

Jennifer:
There are many biblical accounts that are more obscure. Then there are those that the majority of people have heard of, are familiar with, whether believers or unbelievers, and this is probably one of those things. Millions of people being led in the wilderness by a pillar of cloud.

We're going to delve into that today because the Bible does say that God led the Israelites through the wilderness by a pillar of cloud. It's signaled to them when they were supposed to remain camped in a certain location, or when it was time to move to another location. It's signaled this to them by lifting up off of the tabernacle.

To the unbeliever, this, you know, it again just sounds like the substance of a great mythological tale.

Steve:
A fairy tale.

Jennifer:
But when it's explained scientifically, it shows once again, that the accounts in Exodus are actually eyewitness accounts of God's amazing and traceable works. We're not just saying believe this because it's part of a sacred story, but instead, it's shown to be true in the real world, and we can go back and see how God worked in these amazing ways.

Steve:
And this is what we want to keep stressing as we go through these discoveries by Dr. Aardsma, that if God did these things in such a way that we can go back and trace them. He used his real world creation to accomplish these amazing accounts that we have in the Bible. Then in our modern day, with our modern day technology and science, we are able to trace it. We are able to see, ah, because of that situation, because of those circumstances that the Bible plainly states, that is what takes place in God's creation. It's real. It really did happen. So it's really neat and a blessing to be able to share these things and show the reality of it.

Well, why don't we go ahead and just read the scripture, Exodus 13.

Jennifer:
Before you read it, can I just say one other thing?

Steve:
Yep.

Jennifer:
This article came out by Dr. Aardsma last November. So that would have been November of 2023.

Steve:
Right.

Jennifer:
And it is part of a series that he has been doing in great detail on the route of the Exodus. And this is just one installment among many interesting and fascinating realizations about what was actually going on in these Biblical accounts.

Steve:
And you can go back to previous podcast episodes and listen to what we've talked about. The podcast is so neat in that way. It's like books on a shelf. You can go back and pick it off and listen to a past episode there.

Well, Exodus chapter 13:20-22 states this, "Then they set out from Sukkoth, which was the first encampment, and they camped in Etham on the edge of the wilderness. And the Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on their way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night. He did not take away the pillar of cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night from before the people."

Jennifer:
It's also in Exodus 14 and in Numbers 9, there is quite a lengthy description of how the pillar of cloud was working, and we will read that here shortly.

Steve:
Again, we're continuing to witness in these discoveries how God uses his own natural creation in this world to accomplish his purposes. For instance, we talked about water from the rock. Can we actually see how God in his own world, how that happened? Yes, we can.

Jennifer:
And we have. So go back and listen.

Steve:
That's right. Go back and listen to that episode. Manna, coming from, you know, bread from heaven. Can we understand that scientifically?

Jennifer:
An edible substance on the ground every morning sustaining lives of people in the wilderness.

Steve:
Yes, we can. By the way, that's our most listened to podcast episode.
Most popular. Go back and listen to that. Those living in the middle of a situation like this may not, I would say, probably not, did not realize what was happening in their circumstance. So it would have certainly appeared to them completely miraculous in many ways.

Jennifer:
They were really just recording what they saw.

Steve:
Right.

Jennifer:
You know, here's what happened, and we didn't understand it, but it happened.

Steve:
That's right. And God was leading these people, He was providing for these people in a supernatural way, because it's God doing it, but in His own natural world. In this instance, a cloud, a cloud that is above them, giving them indication when to move as a giant camp, when not to move. And this cloud, as you're going to see here, is an inevitable result or phenomenon of having millions of people grouped closely together in encampments in a naturally dry environment.

Jennifer:
So I am going to read this Numbers 9 passage which describes what the cloud was actually doing. So listen in here.

"Now, on the day that the tabernacle was erected, the cloud covered the tabernacle, the tent of the testimony, and in the evening, it was like the appearance of fire over the tabernacle until morning."

"So it was continuously, the cloud would cover it by day and the appearance of fire by night. And whenever the cloud was lifted from over the tent, afterward the sons of Israel would then set out. And in the place where the cloud settled down, there the sons of Israel would camp. At the command of the Lord, the sons of Israel would set out, and at the command of the Lord, they would camp. As long as the cloud settled over the tabernacle, they remained camped. Even when the cloud lingered over the tabernacle for many days, the sons of Israel would keep the Lord's charge and not set out. If sometimes the cloud remained a few days over the tabernacle, according to the command of the Lord, they remained camped. Then according to the command of the Lord, they set out. If sometimes the cloud remained from evening until morning, when the cloud was lifted in the morning, they would move out. Or if it remained in the daytime and at night, whenever the cloud was lifted, they would set out. Whether it was two days or a month or a year, that the cloud lingered over the tabernacle, staying above it, the sons of Israel remained camped and did not set out. But when it was lifted, they did set out. At the command of the Lord, they camped and at the command of the Lord, they set out. They kept the Lord's charge according to the command of the Lord through Moses."

Steve:
An amazing account from the Bible. Again, one that I'm sure you're familiar with. 

Now, an unbeliever may hear that account, would read that account and might think something like, oh my goodness, these ignorant, superstitious people, if the story was even true to begin with, superstitious people aimlessly following a cloud around the wilderness, thinking it was God, right?

Now, a believer might be thinking to themself as they read this, they believe the account, of course, it's true. However, nothing natural was involved here, of course. This is God, God alone supernaturally moved this cloud when it was time for them to press on. So God did this completely.

We are going to show in this account Jennifer just read, how both of these are mistaken when it is understood properly about how God used his own science to lead these people in this account.

Jennifer:
I have to tell a little story here about my own train of thought as these discoveries began to go forward. Of course, Dr. Aardsma is my father and as a family, we had gone over to spend an evening to learn about the manna discovery when the book was just being written and dad was just concluding his years worth of research on the manna topic and so after we had a time of listening and dad presenting his discoveries on that, then I was talking with him afterwards and so I was trying to verbalize and think through what he was describing with the manna and I said, so these people were basically creating their own little atmosphere there in the desert and it was just all flowing into the center and being vented up and dad looked at me and he said, that's the pillar of cloud, and I just stared at him. I just looked back at him and I thought in my mind, I thought the pillar of cloud, that was God, that was God. Like don't start making a research article about the pillar of cloud, right? But then, very quickly, your mind can work pretty fast. And I'm thinking, well, I mean, if this special atmosphere was contributing to the production, was causing the production of the manna, then why would I not think that it could be causing the production of this amazing, glorious pillar of cloud that God used?

Steve:
It is true, like anything you hear for the first time, especially something along these lines that you're so familiar with from the past, that you have to wrap your brain around it. It takes a little time for you to refocus in on what you're being told, to see the reality of it, and then to see that it's just so faith strengthening, that it doesn't have to be such a, quote, miraculous event to be faith building and to understand. As a matter of fact, in our day, this is certainly faith building as so many questions are being put out about these accounts, questioning the reality of these events, that if they even transpired in the real world, and these aren't just fairy tales.

Jennifer:
Yes, there's a quote in the research article. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but dad quotes Wikipedia as saying, there is no evidence that millions of people ever survived in this wilderness or ever could have survived in this wilderness.

Steve:
Well, what we're going to do now is go through a little process through this account. We're going to talk about the who, the what, the how, the where, and the when, and the why about the cloud account of the Exodus. And so let's begin right there at the top.

Let's talk about who. Who is the one who was in this, doing this?

Jennifer:
Right, the who, the pillar of cloud. Well, the Bible does tell us that it was the Lord, or the angel of the Lord, who was leading the people. The Biblical text is pretty clear on this. They obeyed the command of the Lord. We know it was God.
As Christians, we know. We know it was God behind it. Now, it's interesting, sometimes the text does seem to separate what the angel of the Lord does and what the cloud does, and it says it two separate things, but that they are doing the same motion, or moving behind the people or whatever.

Steve:
I think the most clear example of that is at the crossing of the Red Sea. At the beginning of the crossing of the Red Sea, where the Bible says the cloud moved behind the people, and then it states that the angel of the Lord moved behind the people as well.

Jennifer:
It's mentioning two separate things happening there. So it doesn't say that the cloud was God, but it definitely is saying that God was in it, that this was God's direction.

Steve:
Exactly.

Jennifer:
The other part of the who is, again, we've got to remember the millions of Israelites and the millions of cattle, millions upon millions of cattle there in the wilderness. That's the other part of the who of the story.

Steve:
As we have talked about with the manna and other discoveries, that makes all the difference as to why this is transpiring, what's going on in God's world. That's the who. What about the what? What is this that the Bible is describing? Well, it's very clear from the passage that it is a literal physical cloud, described as a pillar, a pillar of cloud.

Now, clouds are formed, how? Well, basic science that you learned in school, clouds are formed by tiny water droplets of moisture in the air. What did the cloud do? According to the account, it moved, but it's interesting to note that it moved up and down. That is the indication that we are getting in the most detailed accounts, that it was moving in a manner of up and down, signaling to them when to camp and when to move on.

Jennifer:
Right. So in our minds, we need to just remember that a cloud is a naturally occurring thing. We're familiar with them. We see them all the time, and it was not probably so much the norm in the wilderness, in the dry desert environment, but it was nonetheless a cloud.

Steve:
Now, if you get into Dr. Aardsma's article, and we encourage you to do that, there's a link on the show notes, he goes into a lot of the science behind this account. We're going to touch on some of it in our podcast, and not get into great detail. But you can go and read up on it, if you're into that kind of thing, and you are really curious.

Jennifer:
If you're a science junkie, and you like graphs and equations, and even computer programs, then go read the article. We are trying to summarize it here today for you in layman's terms. And we are going to teach you today a new term that you probably haven't heard before. I wasn't familiar with this term. It is called a hygrometer.

Steve:
I'm familiar with a thermometer, a thermostat, a speedometer. I never heard of a hygrometer. Maybe I should have heard of it before. So I didn't know what that was.

Jennifer:
Yes, but we know a thermometer, a speedometer, these are measuring things, right? Measuring your speed, measuring the temperature. Well, a hygrometer is used for measuring the humidity of the air or a gas, and it is used to measure the amount of moisture in the air, the humidification of the air. That's what a hygrometer is used for. So what the research article shows us in such a fascinating way is that the pillar of cloud was functioning as a hygrometer for the Israelites. It was measuring and displaying the amount of moisture in the air. How was it doing this? Well, are we getting to the how? Is that the next thing?

Steve:
And this is, to me, the most fascinating part in where we're leading to here. Let's talk about this. You may say, well, how do you know this, that the cloud was functioning as a hygrometer? Well, let's talk about the science of the pillar of cloud. Now, the first thing, again, we mentioned a second ago, you have to keep in mind is the size of this group. It's so easy for us to think about the story of the Exodus, and we know it says, you know, a great multitude of people, and even we may understand that it...

Jennifer:
600,000 men or something like that.

Steve:
Yes. So we can know, we heard from pastors in church, that's millions. But think about it. Have you ever seen a crowd of a million people? Have you ever seen a crowd of 2 million? This crowd was massive.

Jennifer:
When they camped, we know from the archaeology that it was a five mile across encampment.

Steve:
With this many people in close proximity.

Jennifer:
Here in the Midwest, the next town up from us is basically five miles away to the south of us. And in the winter, when the leaves are off some of the trees on a clear day, I think I can see the water tower of that town five miles away. And it's incredible to think of an encampment of tens of millions of people stretching from here to there and in a circle. I mean, the diameter of this encampment is five miles.

Steve:
And it's not just people we're talking about. It's livestock. And we talked about this with the manna. It's very key. In the livestock, you have millions and millions, because it's not like they had one or two little sheep running around each family. I mean, they had lots of sheep. This was their livelihood.

So now I remember when it first dawned on me, because I'm not a scientist, but it first dawned on me, do you think maybe if you had that many people with that much livestock that it could even have an impact on the environment around them? And that's what we're looking at here. The air, we understand from Dr. Aardsma's article, the air in this region is very dry. You mentioned that a minute ago. The Israelite encampments would have added substantial water, water vapor, to this dry desert region and air. Humans give off between two or three liters of water per day. They give it off as perspiration, as urine, water vapor in their breath, for example. And because of the heat of the desert, all of this water would have ended up in the air.

Jennifer:
Right. It's not going to necessarily soak into the ground much. It's just going to evaporate. And that's just coming from one human. But then you have cooking, boiling, watering the livestock, washing that would have been needed when they were near a plentiful water supply. So, all of these uses of water and even being near a water supply is going to be adding substantial moisture to a very dry desert environment.

Steve:
Right. So, again, picturing this, all of these people in close proximity, this moist air would have risen into the atmosphere above the camp because of the buoyancy. And again, we are getting all of this from Dr. Aardsma's newsletter, you can go and read it, and he describes this as moist air that is lighter or less dense than dry air, the buoyancy.

Jennifer:
The key thing for, I think, for us and our listeners to understand is that the height at which the pillar of cloud formed would have depended upon the amount of moisture in that rising column of air. So, the more moisture going into the air is going to affect the pillar of cloud in different ways. And we'll get to that in a minute. But what was happening was all the dry air surrounding the camp is pushing in on the camp. This is me in layman's terms. I'm sure this isn't technically the right terminology. But the air is flowing into the center of the camp. The moist air is being pushed together in the center. And then it is rising up and forming this cloud, because that's what moist air does when it gets enough moisture in it.

Steve:
So you probably were already getting that. And that's where I was leading to as well, that this is what is forming the cloud. That this cloud is being formed above this group because of the circumstances and the situation that we find there. And if you were to go back today and recreate it, this is why this is verifiable. This is God's science, that if you were to bring, you couldn't do this, but millions of people with millions and millions of livestock in that dry region of the world, you would have a giant cloud rise up above them today as well, because it's the way God has made his world.

Jennifer:
This also has to do with the air cooling as it rises in the atmosphere and causing the moisture to condense into the water droplets. And something interesting to note here is that if you get enough humidity, enough moisture in this center area, it's going to produce a fog on the ground, right? We know that when you drive into a cloud on a mountain or something, you are in a fog. And there were times in the biblical account where a fog came down and covered the tabernacle. And so that is totally possible with the way that this thing was working.

Steve:
Right, so let's think about that for just a second here. We need to stress this point. The Bible clearly tells us, and this is part of what shows that these things are true, the account from the Bible is giving us the exact situation that it needs to be, in order for this to have happened the way science shows that it happened. Really, this is real science, real Bible, real history in the real world. For instance, the Bible clearly states that the cloud was over the tabernacle.

Jennifer:
Right. And where was that located?

Steve:
Where was the tabernacle located? It was located in the center of the camp. At least that's what we believe the Bible is telling us, that they were camped.

Jennifer:
But you're getting ahead, because that's the next point. Where?

Steve:
Well, okay, so we'll get on to that more in just a little bit. But it is important to understand that, that the text is clearly giving us an accurate picture of how the science works. And again, the people of that day wouldn't have known the science. They're just recording what they are seeing. So it's reality. Any good fairy tale is going to give you a fantastic story, but it's not going to work out in the real world.

Jennifer:
Exactly.

Steve:
And this does. And this isn't just the first time this happens. This is happening over and over again, that the science and the accounts are adding up, being written by people who don't understand the science at all. They see God, but they don't understand God's science.

So, yes, this cloud descends over the tabernacle in certain stories that we have in the Bible.

Jennifer:
At certain times. In fact, when I was reading Numbers 9 there, I think it's saying that when they built the tabernacle, there was a cloud covering it, like the fog, which makes sense, because it's when the people were all concentrated together, like one time a mob comes against Moses and Aaron at the tabernacle, and that's when we see the cloud coming down onto the ground, and there's scientific reasons for this happening in the humidity, the moisture, all the water vapor of the breath being concentrated together there.

Jennifer:
You can go on Dr. Aardsma's newsletter, and he describes all of this, how it adds water vapor to the air, the air in our lungs exchanges oxygen for carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is heavier than oxygen. It goes into the science a lot. So we don't want to get into all that here.

Jennifer:
This isn't really a chemistry podcast. Good thing, because we would be out of our element.

Steve:
For sure. But we want to just put that in there to show that this is based in reality, real world.

Jennifer:
Yes. So the hygrometer part is the lifting up and the lowering down of the cloud. Dr. Aardsma built a computer program to show what would happen if you had a moist parcel of air released in the dry air and at certain levels of humidity, how high the cloud would be. At 1.8%, I think it is, seems to be probably the optimal amount of humidity they would have had. That's when the cloud was just above the tabernacle. And you can see this on the computer modeling.

And, listen to this. Okay, this will correct your wrong Sunday school impressions. Three-fourths of a mile up into the air... When the cloud was sitting just above the tabernacle and they just were supposed to stay camped there, you could see that cloud going up three-fourths of a mile. I mean, this isn't some little white puffy little, pretty little cloud, you know? I mean, this thing was massive. So, but then when the humidity drops or the moisture, the humidification of the air drops, the cloud lifts up, it forms higher up in the air. So everybody in that whole camp could clearly see that thing is lifting up. Now, they didn't know the hygrometer was telling them that the moisture, the humidity in the air is dropping. That's what's happening when this cloud lifts up.

Steve:
And it's the Lord in it, doing it before them. It's His science and it's His science and His world working for the benefit of these people.

Now, we're going to get into the where. And as we do, the first thing I want to mention here is to tag on to what you just said, that it's so interesting that, as I thought about this, that it is in the center of the camp. Now, you picture yourself in a five mile wide mass of people. How would you even know where are we inside of this mass? How would you have any kind of orientation, sense of direction in the middle of this mass? But if you have this massive cloud that has been, it's being created in the center of the camp, going straight up into the air, well, now you know exactly where the center of the camp is due to this cloud, right? You know where the tabernacle is, and I think that's key. God was in the tabernacle. God is in the Holy of Holies. Now, of course, when it's traveling, on the shoulders of those men, but it's going before them in this way.

Jennifer:
You know, I just thought of this. I mean, it's no wonder... It was God to them, God, because it was above the tabernacle. They couldn't see the tabernacle if they're three miles away. But I know the tabernacle is there. The presence of God is there. There's the pillar of cloud, and that's where God is. And He's the one leading us.

Steve:
Well, and it's interesting, because my thoughts always have been when it says that the tabernacle and the men carrying it, the Levites, was going before them, that obviously that meant it was in front, right? It was out in front of the crowd. And maybe it was at times. But I don't think that's what we're seeing when we see the science behind it. And the word "before", if you look it up in the Hebrew, I think it's pronounced "paw-neem", there's a great variety of applications of that word, literally and figuratively.

Jennifer:
Right, because the text says the Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud. And so we think of this cloud on the road, you know, and all this line of people behind it, and the cloud is just going forward. But what we're seeing is that the cloud was in the center of the camp, and that the people may have very likely traveled in a beehive type of formation.

Steve:
A mass, not a line.

Jennifer:
With the cloud above them, and we'll talk about how it led them a little bit later. But right, I mean, is this true that the cloud actually wasn't out in front of them, leading them? And does the Bible say it was out in front? I mean, it says the Lord was going before them, and I think that's what you're getting at.

Steve:
Yeah, paw-neem, which in the Old Testament can be translated as presence, countenance, face, in the sight of. Those are ways that it's translated throughout the Old Testament. So it's very possible it was going before them in this way, that it was in the center and they were getting their coordinates. They were seeing their position, and they were seeing it lifted or set down.

Jennifer:
So fascinating that that same word, and it's used a lot in Genesis and Exodus, that same word means the face or the presence. I mean, God. Other ways that it's used includes like "the earth also was corrupt before God." So as he viewed it, as he saw it, not necessarily in front of him, although you can see it that way. Another one, Genesis 24, Abraham says to his servant, "and he said unto me, the Lord before whom I walk." So it's in the sight of, you know, in the view of, "stood before Pharaoh." So the meaning there doesn't have to mean in the front of the line of people in any way. And it's much broader meaning than that.

Steve:
And I just find it fascinating that it is in the center of the camp. That's where the tabernacle is, as we mentioned a minute ago. And that correlates with the science behind it. That's how this cloud is forming due to the millions of people in this dry environment.

So that's the where. So what have we seen? We've seen the who, the what, the how, and now we've seen the where. What about the when?

Jennifer:
When? By day.

Steve:
By day. The pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire, or what appeared to be fire, led them by night.

Jennifer:
Now you're probably getting a clue. Our faithful listeners are thinking, okay, so when's the episode going to be on the pillar of fire? because yes, there is a research article on the pillar of fire, and we will get there. Maybe by the end of the year, not sure yet, but that is coming.

But not just by day, but also when did it lift up? When did it lower? Well, I think this is fascinating. In that Numbers Chapter 9, I just read, it did mention that sometimes it lowered in the evening and raised up in the morning. And so not only would the hygrometer have lowered when they were near a water supply and the moisture in the air was high enough, it also would have lowered in the evening because the air is cooling off and the science affects that, that's affected by the science. And that's a natural time, of course, to set up camp. And it even says that there in Numbers, that sometimes we camped in the evening, we went out in the morning.

Steve:
It would also naturally have happened when the water was becoming more scarce in the camp, as you've mentioned. Water starts to be conserved due to less availability within this cloud. So this would have been reflected by a very sensitive hygrometer. I'm learning about a hygrometer and how this works. As the water is becoming more scarce, drying up, then this cloud reacts in God's nature in this way, and it lifts, and the people have the understanding. It's time to pack up.

Jennifer:
The hygrometer would have been very sensitive. The computer modeling of it shows that just a couple tenths of a percent change would have made a huge difference in the height of that cloud. And so as the people began to not wash the clothes as much or not cook as much, not drink as much because the water supply was getting more scarce, the reservoir was getting low, whatever, this hygrometer would have reflected that at a very sensitive level.

Steve:
And why? Let's go to our last point. Well, obviously, the "why" here is to keep these people alive, to prevent them from dehydrating in the wilderness, to lead them to water supply, which would have been their number one need physically in this dry environment, to ultimately get them to the promised land.

Jennifer:
Yes. I mean, dehydration would have been their biggest threat in a wilderness environment. We talked about this last month, three days to live with no water.
And so you can't dilly dally, you know, if your water supply is getting low, the hygrometer reflects that, God shows them that. And everybody in the camp can see it. Okay, it's lifting up, time to pack up. And so it's a unified obedience to what God is showing them. And now we head out.

Now, we didn't discuss this in the how, and we better get to this real quick. How did it lead them? There is the science behind the fact that this pillar of cloud could have easily had a tilt to it as it traveled through the dry desert moist air, and it was attracted towards areas with more moisture. Now, read the article if you wanna know more about that because I'm at my limits to be able to explain that. But, the tilt of the pillar of cloud when they were on the move could have easily been how God directed them. Of course, the Bible doesn't say that, but that is there in the science as well.

Steve:
Right. So the question I have then is, was God leading them or not? And yes, we certainly see that the Bible is clearly stating that God is in this whole thing.
Now, he is using, as we have seen in other instances, his natural world rather than simply supernatural events taking place. And what is the advantage of this? The advantage of this is, again, God uses naturalistic events in these accounts so that they can be verified as true historical events, distinguished from fabricated tales. The historical accuracy of the Exodus accounts has been under attack for years now, decades now, in the fields of research, in the fields of education, scholarship, especially from, as Dr. Aardsma points out, from Biblical archaeology. It is not believed. It is seen as fairy tale. It really is seen as, okay, well, number one, we don't even believe it. Number two, if we do believe it, then these people are just following some cloud aimlessly around the wilderness. No, not at all.

Jennifer:
Or if we do believe it, you know, of course, there's a lot of hyperbole in there, right? I mean, this is mainstream thought today. Everything's kind of overblown, largely overstated.

Steve:
Right.

Jennifer:
But, you know, maybe there was some people that came out of a nation, some, you know, out of Egypt at some point. But no, I mean, this isn't what we're seeing at all. We're seeing 100% accuracy in what these people saw and recorded.

Steve:
And the present scientific understanding of the pillar of cloud is adding to the growing heap of evidence for the simple historicity of the Biblical narrative of the Exodus.

The other advantage that it gives to us is that we now can understand these accounts more fully. The Biblical account gives us the details, but they didn't even understand what it was they were in the middle of in these events. We today can have our understanding broadened about the narrative and what God was doing and how he worked. Misunderstandings can be now more clearly understood. Misinterpretations more clearly understood.

Jennifer:
You know, as I think over this here, as we conclude this section, I mean, God is so wise. Well, he's infinite in wisdom and in his glory. In this amazing provision of this pillar of cloud, you can see, number one, promoting unity within the camp.
That it's not this family's opinion over this one as to how low is the water supply and should we go ahead and go? No, we shouldn't. Let's wait a few more days. Instead, it's just a clear sign, which was a mercy to Moses, of course, as well in his leadership.

But the second thing is, you know, there were nations around them. They traveled through a lot of areas, as we're seeing, as this route of the Exodus is expanded and built upon with each new research article. They traveled through enemy territory. They were surrounded by heathen nations. It's not like those nations couldn't see and didn't know. You know, this enormous encampment of these nomadic peoples, they have their holy thing right there in the center and this cloud. I mean, this cloud.

Steve:
They could see this cloud miles high in there.

Jennifer:
They could see. I mean, God, all through the Old Testament, wants people to see and know and recognize him for who He is.

Steve:
Remember when they went into Jericho? What did the spies, what were they told by Rahab? We have had our eye on you. We have fear struck into our hearts.

Jennifer:
Yeah, we are shaking in our boots, basically.

Steve:
Yeah. Well, you can sort of get an idea. I mean, yeah, God was giving them a fear.
But at the same time, these people, this massive pillar of cloud and fire is amongst them in this time. And, you know, this is such a huge, massive group.

Jennifer:
It just takes us back to our verse at the beginning, Psalm 83:18, "So that they will know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the most high over all the earth."

Steve:
That's right. Take this, pass this information on to other people. You know, think on it. Worship the Lord. God works in these ways. And let me just mention this.
God's still the same God. And He still works through His natural world. The gospel is a wonderful illustration of this. How does God get the gospel to the next person? Does He do something supernatural? I mean, He can if He wants to, but no. He uses the mouth and the tongue and the hands and the feet of regular people to take the message of Christ to a lost world. That's the same thing. It's God performing His greatest works in His natural world through natural means.

Jennifer:
He shows His glory every day in our lives through the most ordinary things. We don't need to look for Him to be doing miraculous, spiritual works that are out there somewhere. We need to look for Him in the nitty gritty, in the everyday places in our lives where He's at work, where He's put things in front of us and where He wants to be glorified and wants everyone to know He's the most high.

Steve:
He can do the miraculous, but that doesn't seem to be how He works on a daily basis, and in normal ways that He works. So it's encouraging. You see the reality in the Old Testament. You see God working back then. You see Him working today.

Jennifer:
Very good.

Steve:
As we move on into our next section here, we want to just briefly mention that our October podcast is one that you will certainly want to tune into. It's two months from the time we're recording this, and it's going to be a special feature. We are going to be discussing climate change.

I know there's not much talk about climate change these days. I know that may be a word that you may need to have defined for you. Anyhow, with our real science, real Bible, real history and real world, we are going to delve into climate change from a biblical perspective. Is climate change real? If it is real, this global warming, is it man-made? Is it a threat to our civilization?

Now, this episode is going to lead us into some pretty weighty content. It's true in life that sometimes you have to talk about things you don't want to talk about. And this is where we find ourselves because it's weighty.

Jennifer:
It starts with climate change, global warming. It does not end there. And Dr. Aardsma's work in the ancient Old Testament, which is the most ancient written history of our planet, and we must take it seriously, has led him to a new theory of climate change and leads to some pretty crazy places. So we need your prayers as we prepare this content. You probably don't know where it's going to lead. It's gonna catch you by surprise, but we are trusting God in it, and we hope you'll listen in. We hope you'll be praying with us as Bible science research takes us to some very unexpected territory.

Steve
All right. We have another new section in our podcast this time. We're excited about this. We are calling it "As a Matter of Fact."

Jennifer:
It's going to be short and sweet and to the point, As a Matter of Fact.

Steve:
Now what we wanna do with this is present the first point, which we are calling "You May Have Heard It Said", and then we're going to conclude it with "As a Matter of Fact". And today's As a Matter of Fact section is going to be Dr. Aardsma himself answering this. We're just going to quote him from something he says. So here we go. Jennifer, why don't you take You May Have Heard It Said?

Jennifer:
You may have heard it said... before Noah's flood, all the continents were together in one big supercontinent. And this is how all the animals were able to come on board Noah's ark from all over the world. But during and after the flood, the continents were split apart. You may have heard this said. And the Bible confirms this by saying, quote, "the earth was divided" in Genesis 10:25.

Steve:
Well, as a matter of fact... there is no way to accomplish splitting apart of continents in a time scale of centuries or even millennia, apart from pure supernatural action. And again, I'm quoting Dr. Aardsma. The basic scientific problem is that continents are big. They have huge inertia. That means a huge amount of work is necessary to get them to move. And then a huge amount of work is needed to get them to stop moving. They move in a frictive medium, the mantle. Power is energy per unit time. A lot of heat energy will be produced in the mantle by the continents moving in it. If you try to confine this to a few centuries or millennia, you wind up with a serious excess heat problem. Measurements on the earth fail to show any excess heat. In Genesis 10:25, as was mentioned, the earth was divided, in context, that seems to be speaking of the division of the languages, not the splitting apart of continents, but the division of the languages at the Tower of Babel.

Jennifer:
There's much more we could say on this topic. We're not saying that at some point in virtual history there wasn't a supercontinent. I think that does seem to be the case, but it certainly was not at the time of Noah's Flood or before Noah's Flood, during Noah's Flood, supercontinents forming and dividing. The science does not support that kind of an idea.

Steve:
If you have any questions, thoughts, send us an e-mail.

Jennifer:
Send them in. We'll shoot it over to Dr. Aardsma and get you an answer directly from him.

Steve:
There's our first installment of As a Matter of Fact.

Jennifer:
As we move into our aging section, the aging research section, which as you know, comes from the longevity data recorded in the ancient Book of Genesis and Dr. Aardsma's discovery of the two anti-aging vitamins that went missing after the time of Noah's flood. I have been looking forward to this section. This is a fun section, partly because we're stealing somebody else's content and bringing that to you. That's easier than making your own content, right? But we are going to give credit to the person, to the source. This is coming from an individual named Anar Isman. He is a presence on what used to be called Twitter, now called X. And he has a lot of clarity on the issue of aging in our society. Now, he certainly doesn't endorse the anti-aging vitamins. He may not believe Genesis. I don't know. I can't speak for him. I've interacted with him a little bit, but he has clarity on the fact that as a society, we need to see aging in a different way than the status quo. And so that's what we're going to share with you. Some of his quotes, his tweets, he's got a great way of wording things and making you think about it in a new way. You want to give the first one?

Steve:
Sure. Here's the first quote. "Aging and death are society's most critical, but completely overlooked challenges. Why? because people have a hard time thinking outside of the status quo. For example, 200 years ago, people did not think there was anything wrong with slavery. Then enter the British abolitionist movement."

Jennifer:
All right. Here's another one. "When I talk about slowing aging, people say only if I am healthy. So you'd think that once your kidneys fail and your health span is gone, that would be it. But with that in mind, it's a miracle that dialysis companies are doing so well, considering that people only want a health span. It's clear to me that even without perfect health, people still value extended life. Now, how do I help you realize that?

Steve:
Right. because that's an argument people have on the anti-aging front. Well, only if I'm healthy.

Jennifer:
I want to live, you know, but as soon as I start to have health problems, or I, you know, start to feel my age, I don't want to extend my life, you know, a long time.

Steve:
But put yourself in that situation. Where would that line be drawn for you? That you say, well, now I don't want to have longer life. So, very good quote.

Jennifer:
Now, here's another one. Okay. Now, this is not a political statement from The BC Messenger. But this is a tweet that Anar Isman recently put up after the incident with former President Trump being shot at, at the rally. And so on the tweet, he has a picture which most of our, if not all of our listeners, I'm sure have seen the picture of Trump with his fist in the air being taken off of that stage after he was shot at. So here's Anar's take on that picture.

Steve:
"80-year-old man didn't die. Amazing. Lifespan extended. Death is bad. Everyone agrees. Now, let's apply the same mindset to 100,000 80-year-old people that die from aging every single day. To me, this picture represents the importance of the fight to live. Life over death, and aging being the number one threat to life. You need to be alive to fight."

Jennifer:
I love that. You can't fight, which was what former President Trump was saying there in that photo, you can't fight if you're not alive. We've got to sustain life, extend life. That should be our number one priority even when it comes to aging as a society.

Steve:
This Mr. Isman put out a video, I guess it was, on a tweet. It was an old Burger King commercial.

Jennifer:
Yeah. We've just got to sneak this one in here because I love it. Okay, what this tweet was saying was how hard it is for us to change our mindset about something, which as a society, of course, we see aging as very normal. So let me read the tweet.

Steve:
Why don't we play the audio.

Jennifer:
Yes. Let's play the audio of this. Now, this is a news segment from 30 years ago about Burger King starting to accept credit cards, which was a brand new thing.

Steve:
Unheard of.

Jennifer:
There's a news segment here, a picture, Burger King credit card accepted on their sign. Okay. So we'll listen to this audio and then we'll read Anar's tweet.

Steve
Our point is how slow we are to accept new ideas. Even as obvious as they are to us today.

Jennifer:
It's so hard for us to be a visionary and see the potential in something, you know?

Steve:
So listen to this.

AUDIO OF COMMERCIAL PLAYS:

Jennifer:
Oh, it's so funny. I can't imagine it working on a day-to-day basis.

Steve:
And again, just an illustration. It's very hard for us to be visionaries, to see the future, to see how this is going to just be part of life.

Jennifer:
Right.

Steve:
And then once it is part of life, it's like, well, everybody already knew it.

Jennifer:
So here is Anar's tweet on this, which again, he just words it so well. "Just 30 years ago, people were freaking out when Burger King started accepting credit cards. Humans are really bad at accepting anything new and thinking outside of the status quo. But once it's available, they adopt it and they forget what they used to fight and imagine it as completely natural. This is what will happen with interventions that can radically extend lifespans. But it would happen sooner if we dedicated more resources to it. And if you miss it by even a minute, it's too late. So the sooner it happens, the higher our chances."

Now, I would add to that, it would happen sooner if more people would take Genesis seriously and look at this book, Aging, Cause and Cure, written from the reality of Noah's flood, the reality of the lifespan data, and take advantage of this discovery of the two anti-aging vitamins.

Steve:
That's right. And we're thankful for visionaries, those who see ahead in a much clearer way than most of us do, and in spite of the mocking, in spite of the disbelief, they go forward anyhow, and we are all benefited.

Jennifer:
Yes. We do want our listeners to know that because we are celebrating the second anniversary of the podcast, we are offering a special sale on the anti-aging vitamins, which is rare. We don't offer sales very often, but we do have these two newly discovered vitamins bottled together in a supplement. You can order this, and you can be a visionary. You can be a person who is seeing beyond the status quo and who is understanding these things in God's real world, understanding it to a point anyhow to where you want to take advantage of it for yourself. And the sale that we're offering from august 1st through august 9th is buy one, get one free on the vitamins, which is the best price you will ever get for individual purchases of any quantity. And I do hope that you will stop and ask yourself, if I haven't taken advantage of this discovery, why haven't I? And realize that this is your best opportunity as far as price goes. And you know, like Anar pointed out, I mean, we really don't have any time to waste when it comes to aging. Aging is ravaging in the body without these two newly discovered vitamins. And we need the protection and the healing that they're able to offer us no matter where we are in our chronological age. And I hope you'll take advantage of it.

Steve:
All right. We have our Helen's View section now. And Helen, this month, is going to talk about a very special young man to us. His name is Sam.

Jennifer:
We've known him all of his life.

Steve:
We've known him and he's known us all of his life. Sam Hall. And so this is Helen's View for this episode. Meet Sam Hall.

Helen:
I'd like you to meet Samuel Hall. This summer, Sam started working for me in the shipping room. So he has joined the behind the scenes crew, which keeps ARP's unique Bible Science ministry going, including bringing this podcast to you each month.

Samuel, Sam, is my grandson and the fourth child of Jennifer and Steve Hall. Sam is 15 and will turn 16 in October of this year. He is greatly looking forward to getting his driver's license this fall so he can drive himself to all his sports activities.

He recently purchased his first vehicle and, as you can imagine, he is pretty thrilled about that. I remember Sam as a little tyke and he was always smiling. I was a long-distance grandma, and so I only got to see him once a year or so and missed watching him grow up.

But God has since made up for it and I'm thoroughly enjoying getting to know Sam as a teenager as he lives just a few blocks from me. Sam fills online orders for Mulberry Lane Farm, bagging products, putting together pallets for pickup and numerous other tasks. I really enjoy working with Sam. He has a great attitude and picks things up quickly. And it is a great way to get to know him better. Sam is a handy guy to have around as he helps his uncle Caleb and his grandpa Aardsma on various projects around the ARP campus.

Sam is home school and will be a sophomore this fall. He takes one class at the local high school, which allows him to play basketball and football for the public high school teams. I have really enjoyed watching Sam play, and I must say he is improving about as quickly as he is growing tall.

Last summer, Sam had a pumpkin patch and sold his pumpkins to the public. He grew some real beauties. Sam takes care of cutting his family's lawn and has daily chores around the house and farm.

Sam also travels, sings and plays his violin with his family in our Truth in Time ministry. Sam is a great big brother to his four younger siblings and sets a good example to them. He also enjoys spending time with his older siblings, going fishing with Joshua when he has a few spare hours.

Sam will become an uncle for the first time, as his brother is having a little girl around Christmas time.

At the local gym, Sam can be found lifting weights with his two brothers, Joshua and Toby.

Gerald remembers being this age. Two things were on his mind. Where's the ball? And what's for dinner? So two frequent topics of conversation in the shipping room between Sam and me are sports and food.

I am very proud of Sam. He loves the Lord, is kind, and has a servant's heart. I know God is already using Sam, and I'm excited to watch the Lord do great things with his life.

Jennifer:
As we close out the beginning of our third season of the podcast, thanks for being with us. Thanks for hanging in there through all the ups and downs of this podcast journey. It's been great, and we're thankful to have you with us. And as we go through the ups and downs, not just of podcasting, but also of life, which we all experience, we need to know that God is at work, and that he is real, and he's powerful, merciful, mighty to save. So we pray that this podcast has helped you to draw nearer to the true and living God. And there's always so much more to learn as we follow him. He is the God of all truth, and he made such a world and gave us such mysteries to solve as we uncover all that he's done and is doing.

Steve:
Yes, and as we launch into this third year, we do thank you for joining us month by month as we are here on the cutting edge of real science, real Bible, real history, and real world. Take this and share it with a friend. They may be encouraged as well and strengthened in their faith.

Jennifer:
And if you teach Sunday School, you can teach on the pillar of cloud like you never have before.

Steve:
Thanks for joining us. We'll see you in September.