"You Can't Get Data from Myths" - Applying the Scientific Method to the Bible

Steve:
I have been putting out some video shorts recently, pointing people to this Bible Science podcast where we present a data-rich apologetic for the Christian faith. Some common reactions include ones like this. "Bro, what data? Where is it? If you want to have faith, have faith. So don't tell me you have data from the Bible."

Hello and welcome to the BC Messenger podcast. My name is Steve Hall. As always, I'm here with my wife Jennifer Hall and this is March 2025, episode number 32. Thank you for joining us for this episode.

Jennifer:
Real science, real Bible, real history, real world, episode 32. And we're going to start out today with a quote that is attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr. He said, "The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions." And here at this podcast, I hope you will always come and listen and come away with some new ideas, having stretched your mind in a new direction.

Steve:
Today on our podcast, we are dealing with new ideas, talking about that subject. Some new ideas are welcomed. Not usually though. Other new ideas are met with resistance, objections. But either way, when they come along, the human mind must now grapple with the new information that has entered its consciousness. So our podcast provides new ideas. There's no doubt about that. You've been listening very long. You know that. And these new ideas can be stretching, a stretching experience for everybody, Bible believers, skeptics, laypeople, scholars, whoever you are. And then when the new idea is presented, each person has to decide what to do with that new information that they've received.

Jennifer:
That's just how it is on the road of life, right? We're going along. We feel settled in what we know and where we are. And then something new enters our mind from some direction and challenges us, causes us to grow. And that is the human experience as we go through life. And we should never stop growing, learning. If we ever get to that place where we feel that we want to stay completely in the box that we're in and we're never willing to consider anything new, that really is a dangerous place to be. So I'm thankful for those who listen to this podcast and who are willing to travel with us into these new areas and let their mind be stretched.

Steve:
And where we're headed, as we mentioned a minute ago at the beginning of the podcast here, we had a discussion with a gentleman who is questioning some of the things that we are saying, and we are giving him on some social media new ideas. And we're going to get there in just a moment. But before we do, you gave the quote there from Oliver Wendell Holmes. And every now and then a man's mind is stretched by a new idea or sensation and never shrinks back to its former dimensions.

Steve:
This is apparently what he originally wrote. And then the quote kind of changed forms a little bit over the years. But the occasion of him writing it was when he had been to see the Swiss Alps for the first time. This was in September of 1858 that he went in and was able to see that and then made the statement, you know, that the way his mind had conceived of the planet and space was just completely stretched after the experience of being there and seeing that in person.

Steve:
Right. Well, new information, new experiences on this road of life really can leave you changed forever. We are ever learning. We are ever building in our minds. We've never fully arrived at having all the information.

Now let's set apart who we are as we attempt in this podcast to answer some questions really of skeptics. That's what we're doing here today in our main topic is talking to some skeptics about what we have.

Jennifer:
We proclaim and assert on these video shorts that you referred to at the beginning, that we are doing Bible science research. We are taking a data rich approach to apologetics. And so Bible science research, the method that is used here by Dr. Aardsma, he has termed the Bible science method of research and discovery. When you hear that you might want to pigeonhole that, oh, I know that group. That's right. That's like that group. So we do want to set ourselves apart that we are not necessarily connected or associated with some of the groups you may think of.

Steve:
Right. So let's begin by showing what we're not. It's interesting. A couple of times we have been approached by folks that think we are something called Christian science. Now Christian science you have to understand is actually a religion of its own, a certain sect of religion.

Jennifer:
We really don't even know that much about the Christian science religion. But it is unfortunate that they've taken that term because then we, with a Christian research scientist over here, PhD, where we are not in the Christian science religion. So no, we're not that important to point out. We did have someone ask us that even recently.

Steve:
We are not associated with or in the same, I guess you could call it camp, as groups such as Reasons to Believe. That's Hugh Ross's group. You've probably heard of Answers in Genesis. Ken Ham's group. We are not that. We are not affiliated with Bio-logos or the ASA, American Scientific Affiliation. I believe there's good works going on. And in all of these, there's probably good things going on, of course. But that's not who we are. We are not young earth creationism in the way that it's understood today.

Jennifer:
Right. And the approach that these groups take is not the approach that is taken here at the biblical chronologist. So we did want to just start out by saying we are Bible science research, but do not just think that we are lumped in with any of these other well-known groups today.

Steve:
Dr. Aardsma takes a very high view of both the Bible and the science, both of them, and not negating one because of the other, setting them at odds against each other in any way, but taking a high view. Now this is immediate head-scratcher, a point of confusion for many folks trying to put Bible and science together. What are most people hearing when they hear that Bible science?

Jennifer:
People in their TikTok feed, in their Instagram Reels feed that are seeing these video shorts where we just give a little tidbit point to the podcast, so often, laugh, laugh, laugh reactions, because it's immediately like, this does not compute. These two things do not go together. What are you trying to say? You're going to give me truth connecting fairy tales with reality. That's ridiculous. So we understand that Bible science, just that term alone is a hurdle for people to even get over there. That's what we want to address on the podcast today.

Steve:
The fairy tale / reality method is what some people hear. Right. No, not at all. We want to show if folks will listen that these things do go together.

Now, one more set apart here before we get into the main topic of the day. We here specialize in the ancient Old Testament, specifically the Pentateuch, first five books of the Bible. Sometimes folks want to bring up questions about other parts of the Bible, the New Testament, the resurrection of Jesus.

Jennifer:
Maybe they'll question something Paul wrote or bring up like, "Oh, but what about slavery in the Bible? What do you think about that?"

Steve:
All those are important in their own way, but that's not what we deal with here.

Jennifer:
And usually we'll just respond by saying there are other resources you can go to for those questions, but we specialize in the early Old Testament, Genesis through Joshua. If you're here with questions about the historicity of those books, then you're in the right place.

Steve:
Right.

Jennifer:
All right. So our rundown of content today is going to be four sections. First of all, we have, "You can't get data from myths; applying the scientific method to the Bible?", which is what we've been setting the stage for here as we've opened. "Can you apply the scientific method to the Bible?" We're going to go through that today with a concrete example, not just philosophical ideas about it. And then we have following that with a section on updating you on Dr. Aardsma's climate change research. He has put out three additional articles since the first article came out. And again, this is resulting from the Bible science research method of research and discovery. We're just going to update you on the second article in the series in the climate change work. And this is specifically dealing with what is the forecast, all this doom and gloom and like coming apocalypse because everything is just going to melt down with this global warming. What are we actually looking at from this Bible science vantage point? And then hopefully we have time to get to a section updating you on the health and wellness expo that I was able to attend and present a table for Dr. Aardsma anti-aging vitamins, these newly discovered vitamins there up in Northern Indiana. And I interacted with a bunch of folks and I'm excited to share with you some of what happened there just briefly towards the end of the podcast. And then we have Helen's view and she will be sharing a portion of a book that was meaningful to her over the years and how she feels it encourages her in the work that's being done here.

Steve:
So we made these videos and we put them out on social media and here lately we've been putting some out on TikTok. I never dreamed I would be on TikTok and I've told Jennifer quite a few times in the past, it seems like much of our vocabulary has been changing in our modern day with all these different things. We have TikTok, Google, X, Twitter.

Jennifer:
Selfies.

Steve:
Yeah, right.

Jennifer:
I saw some years ago that that was the new word in the dictionary for the year was selfie. Didn't used to be a word, you know. All these terms.

Steve:
Anyhow, we were on TikTok and we put a video out there and an individual came back to us with some really good questions. And that's what kind of spring-boarded us onto this topic here today in this episode. "You know, if you want to have faith, have faith, but don't tell me you got data from the Bible!"

Jennifer:
All right. So that was a short comment, not from the person who we had the lengthy interaction with, but that just demonstrates that most people don't take the time to delve into detail communication, but some people will just leave you a sentence. Like what are you talking about? You know, that there's nothing true in the Bible. You know, you get plenty, plenty of reactions like that. And then we had this fellow from somewhere overseas or another country had a lovely accent and he was talking with us through some video communications there on TikTok. And of course we want to be very careful to represent him properly and not take him out of context. But his questions were good. And we thought that it would be helpful for our podcast audience in general, just to talk through the basic question that he was raising there.

Steve:
Right. So that's what we're going to delve into here in our discussion section of our podcast, applying the scientific method to the Bible. How is it possible to start with the Bible as data? What is data, by the way? Well just looking up the definition in the dictionary, data actually means factual information such as measurements or statistics used as a basis for reasoning, for discussion, even calculation. That's what data is. So how is it possible to start with a Bible as data? Can the scientific method, the method that we use to get information and data be applied to the Bible? This ancient book, what do we mean when we say the Bible science method of research and discovery? A common, again, reaction, "You're not doing science when you're approaching this with the Bible because what you believe is nothing but miracles, nothing but mythology. Miracles can't be shown to be true science. I want something I can replicate. I want something I can see for myself." That's what this gentleman's main point was.

Jennifer:
This is really the gist of his comment. He goes on, you know, talked a good bit about miracles and you can't observe the biblical miracles like you normally do when you start with something in science and you certainly can't replicate them. So how are you saying that this is science? 

Steve:
Can this ancient document have anything to do with what we know of today as science?

Jenifer:
So the underlying premise coming back to us is one of, "I categorically reject the Bible as data because I already know it is not true." And that's understandable. We understand why somebody would come from that starting point. But sometimes we do need to back up and reconsider our starting points. We'll leave that for our listeners to decide. But what we need to do here is try to talk through this question. Can the scientific method be applied to the Bible? Can we demonstrate that being done?

Steve:
Okay. So what is the scientific method? Let's all go back to middle school here for a little while for a second here and talk about that. What do we mean when we say the scientific method? Well the scientific method where we learn data, where we learn information and facts begins with observation. We have a question. We formulate a hypothesis or a theory about our question. As we observe this thing, we design an experiment. Based on the data, we reach a conclusion. And then we present the results. That is the basic rundown of the scientific method.

Jennifer:
Right. And empirical evidence. That's a term we hear in science. Our friend on TikTok brought that up. For an experiment to be valid, it has to be empirical. One of the conditions for something to be empirical is that the phenomenon has to be observable, experimented upon, and measurable. So we need quantitative evidence.

Steve:
Now let me interject something here. Hang with us. Because our goal is to bring to you a very, very clear example of applying this scientific method we're talking about here to something in the Bible that's as clear as it can be that Dr. Aardsma has already presented. So I just wanted to make sure people were aware of that.

Jennifer:
Right. We're coming to that. We're going somewhere with it. Right. We know what the scientific method is. It's pretty straightforward. It's well known. Now the skeptic is saying to us in these different conversations, "When people talk about the Bible as science, it does not comply with those characteristics," that we just laid out of empirical evidence of observation, hypothesis, experiment, all of this. 

Okay. So that brings us to the question, the big question we want to answer here today. Can the scientific method be applied to the Bible?

Steve:
So you may think, whoever you are listening, sure it can. You may be someone else and you're sitting in your vehicle where you're listening to this thing. Absolutely cannot. And we could go back and forth. We could talk about philosophy. We could talk about different angles to view this and look at it. But what do we really need here?

Jennifer:
Yeah. Right. We just need to test this out. If somebody can successfully demonstrate that it can be done, then we'll know that it can be done.

Steve:
We need an example.

Jennifer:
You may think it's impossible until you see it done and then you realize it's not impossible. And like we said, this applies to many different types of people. You may think, "Well, I don't think God would do this and this." Others may think, "Well, I think God would do that." Well, we can think, we can have opinions, but we just need a test.

This kind of reminds me of something that happened in our own family recently. Two of our sons who are both grown and live in another state, one of them had trouble with his car and his brother kindly came over to help him on a day when they were both free, trying to avoid the high cost of the mechanic and see if they could resolve it themselves. And it was pouring down rain, is what my son told me there on the phone after the fact. And he said the first question they really weren't sure of was what was actually the problem, and they thought it was the radiator. And they thought they were going to need a new radiator. They were thinking the radiator was possibly cracked. And he said they went back and forth about it. They were unsure how to proceed and what to do until one of them said, "Well, let's just pour some fluid in it and see what happens." Right?

Steve
Right. We can philosophize about this all day.

Jennifer:
What we really need to do here is just test this.

Steve:
I think it would be. I think it wouldn't be. Well, the way it was hit, I'm not sure. We can go back and forth, but how are we going to really find out? Good idea. Let's do a test. Let's put the water in there and see what happens.

Jennifer:
So he said they poured the fluid in and it immediately all drained out of the bottom of the radiator and so that answered the question.

Steve:
Right. So your argument either holds water or it doesn't. All right. And you find out by a test.

Jennifer:
Right. A real world observable example. And then there you go. Your questions, your philosophy are all put to rest at that point.

Steve:
All right. So here we go. We're going to give an example. Now, for those of you who are skeptics, and if you're listening, we are so thankful. And this fellow, I hope he's listening. I can't remember his name, but has asked for examples. If you know someone who needs this kind of information to say, "Show me where data can be applied to the Bible, how you can put these things together," here we go. Okay. We have an example. And as a Christian, as a follower of Jesus, as a believer in God, I fully believe God led Dr. Aardsma to this example for this very purpose that we're going to share with you today.

Jennifer:
We here at the Biblical Chronologist do have many different directions we could go with the research here to demonstrate the scientific method at work. But we do have this very nice example that we're going to use today, which is the example of the biblical manna substance. It's nice because our friend on TikTok suggested that whatever the science is that's being done with the Bible should be able to be understood at a middle school level as far as the experimentation, etc. So, the manna, the nice little book that we have about it and how the discovery of it was done, it could all be done in a middle school laboratory. So that's why we chose this example for the podcast. Now our next section here on the podcast is going to go into something much on a much more grand scale. This is nice and small, and you can hold it in your hand.

Steve:
So we have this story in this ancient document about these people in the wilderness who go out there and every day they find this... every morning they find this substance on the ground. And it sustains them. It gives them calories. They're able to eat it. Now, they ended up having to wolf this stuff down for 40 years. That wasn't the original intention, but because of their disobedience, according to this account, they had to end up eating this for 40 years, along with other things that they had, of course. So Dr. Aardsma decided, began to think about and theorize, well, what was this? And by the way, that's what it's called. "What is it?" Manna means in Hebrew, "what is it?" And he began to think, if this was done by God in a natural way, we ought to be able to observe, right? What is the scientific method? We have a question.  We formulate a hypothesis. We ought to be able to do an experiment, reach a conclusion, and then present the results.

Jennifer:
All right. So we have the observation step. We take the record given to us in a few of the ancient Old Testament books there, where Manna is reported as having been experienced by these people. That is the observation step. Now these observations include the fact that it was absent on Sundays, what it tasted like, what it looked like, how it behaved under certain circumstances, such as being left open to the elements or being sealed up. There are a lot of observations there. And now this immediately is where the skeptics understandably begin to raise their questions. Excuse me, but you cannot say that those are observations. That is a myth. That is a story, a fanciful story told by some ancient primitive peoples that lived out in the desert, or whoever they were that made this story up. Don't tell me you have real world observations when I already know it's not true. It's obviously mythology.

Okay, so we understand that, but we're going to go ahead and proceed trying to apply the scientific method, knowing that if it is just a fanciful story, if it is mythology, it will not be replicated most likely. I mean, there's one chance in a trillion that you're going to be able to replicate something that was just the figment of somebody's imagination.

Steve:
Well, let me make this point to the skeptic who will say that, that this is just myth. I already know it. That is a preconceived idea. And you need to think about the fact that you see this in those on the other side all the time, right? You look at the Christian and you look at them and say, "Well, they don't even believe in evolution because they've got preconceived ideas that they've already decided your evolution is a myth." You already believe your holy book and you're just looking for reasons to believe it.

So both sides, this is the problem here. Both sides, whether you're a believer or a skeptic, are doing the same thing. They have their own preconceived ideas and for the most part will not listen when true evidence is being presented. And so in this particular example, we're asking the skeptic to say...

Jennifer:
Can you approach this with an open mind? That perhaps some part of these ancient stories might be able to be shown to be true. I'm willing to consider that and not reject this right out of the gate. Okay, agree. Let's take those observations as real observations and the first step in the scientific method. Knowing that if the man of substance could be scientifically explained, then it would be very hard to say the story was just made up because the person making up the story would not have understood any kind of science to come into play there to create this imagined substance. So here we go. There's our observation. If we can start with that and then go to the next step.

Steve:
And I mentioned a second ago, we asked the question, what is this or what was it? This thing that they call manna, that's our question. Can we discern as they asked back then what was it?

Jennifer:
It's so funny. The Israelites had the first two steps of the scientific method right there. They observed it and they asked the question, what is it?

Steve:
And then they put it to use and they ate it.

Jennifer:
But they were not able to make a hypothesis about what it was.

Steve:
Apparently not. Not that we know of. So they asked the question and then we develop a hypothesis. Not we, but in this case specifically Dr. Aardsma formulated a hypothesis, a testable explanation or prediction based on the observation and the existing knowledge of the situation there.

Jennifer:
Yes, exactly. And we continue to be surprised that he's the only one that we know of that has ever done this, taking the observations about the manna and everything known about the encampments, about the numbers of people, the numbers of livestock and thinking it through, boiling it down to a hypothesis about the manna was being produced because of... and I'll just summarize it very shortly... short summary here, because of emissions from the cattle interacting with the desert air, and the desert soil and environment there. And having to do with the arrangement of the encampments and you can read the manna book and get the full hypothesis.

Steve:
Having an understanding of millions of people, we don't normally come across a group of millions, with millions and millions of livestock in a dry desert environment. I mean the conditions there would have been wild in the environment because of such a massive group. And so like you said, we don't have time to get into the whole thing, go back and read it, but that's the hypothesis here.

Jennifer:
And the hypothesis doesn't happen overnight. I remember dad, Dr. Aardsma ordering stacks of books about soil in the central Negev region of the world, the soil in the deserts there, what is it made up of? What is it like? Getting into the nitty gritty... what types of cattle did they have? What types of compounds, chemical compounds are emitted from all of the cattle? And doing chemistry, all of these things are going to have to be done in order to formulate what you believe is a workable hypothesis. And so that's a huge step just to even get to a reasonable theory.

Steve:
Right. So he has the hypothesis and now he does the experiment. Okay. Going right down the scientific method, replicating those conditions, compounds in the laboratory, and seeing what the results actually look like.

Jennifer:
So that was done. It actually was done repeatedly through the process, and it's all outlined in the book there, because we've talked about this on the podcast in the past. It's not hard to falsify a theory. There are any number of wrong answers to a question. There's only one right answer when it comes to math and science and these types of things. And so finding the wrong answer is easy. Finding the right answer is very, very hard. And so you're not necessarily always going to come to it on your first try, right? In fact, a layman's term for the scientific method might just be the method of trial and error. We'll try this. We'll go back to the drawing board. We'll try something else.

Steve:
And that's happened many, many, many times. It's great discoveries. Over the years, we've read all the stories. Experiments being done over and over and over again. Dr. Aardsma's aging research. So many trials and errors, right? And then you finally come to the right result.

Jennifer:
Some of the experiments done on the Manna project resulted in a compound that seemed like, surely this would have been Manna, but one characteristic was not being met. For example, I remember there was one that was clear. It was translucent, the result of the experiment, the flakes that were produced. And so the Bible says it was white. It was like whore frost. It was very clear it was white.

Steve:
Well, we're getting to our next point. After the experiment, we then have the data analysis. Because the results of the experiment match the properties in the account of Manna. So we analyze it carefully. So right, if you think you have all of these pieces put together and then you actually do the experiment and you have a liquid, it's not right.

Jennifer:
Right, it was flakes.

Steve:
Something's wrong. If it's clear and it's not white, as it's very clear in the account, then something's not right. And so...

Jennifer:
If it tasted bitter, right, the Bible says it was sweet like honey wafers.

Steve:
If it makes your mouth burn, if it causes you to fall over and hallucinate. Probably not the right substance. Probably don't have it. So did his experiment do this? The short answer is yes, it does.

Jennifer:
Right. Eventually he was able to refine his hypothesis and come out with a substance when analyzed that did match all the properties of the biblical Manna.

Steve:
Like you said, there are a lot of properties given to us in that account. And so that's a lot to have to prove to be true, that match. It would be very, very easy to prove that his theory was completely wrong. And in the end, it comes out to be true. And we're not going to harp on that. You can get that and look at it if you're interested and read it. But we're just trying to present this to you today. So that's our final... Well, we have two more points with this scientific method. What is the conclusion of the experiment? If the result doesn't match the properties of Manna, then we know the substance isn't Manna. We have to adjust the hypothesis and do another experiment.

Jennifer:
Right. And then when you do get a result of your experiment that shows your hypothesis to be accurate, then you have very solid scientific reason to believe that in this case, that what you're holding in your hand is in fact the biblical Manna. You reasoned that it was produced this way through the encampments, through the cattle and the air and the nighttime and the soil and all of this. And then lo and behold, you were able to do it in the laboratory. So do you have proof positive? This is 100% Manna. Nobody can ever question that. No, that's not how science works. We have definitely corroborated the hypothesis at that point. And we have. You can read the book.

Steve:
So that's the last thing, present the results. All of this that we just described is documented in the book. It's called "Bread from Heaven, the Manna Mystery Solved" by Dr. Gerald Aardsma. And there it is, all documented for anybody to go and look at and to go and see. So there you go. In a nutshell, somebody wants to say, "Apply the scientific method to the Bible for me. Show me how you do that." This has been done. And it's as clear as it can be. I'm not a scientist, never claimed to be a scientist, not the son of a scientist. But even I can understand it. I don't understand all the things in Dr. Aardsma's book, all of his equations and all of that. And to be honest, I don't have a desire to. But I get it. I get the point. I get the gist of it. And it's not that I just want it to be true. It's sitting right there in front of me, the evidence. So what do you do with that? And that's really what we're presenting here when new information comes into your mind, and you're presented with it, you can't ever be the same person, if you're going to be honest.

Jennifer:
Now if you're interested, you can get a packet of this manna from us. You can taste it, touch it, look at it. If you are scientifically oriented, you could even make it. You could follow the formula in the book. You could understand all the science behind it and do it yourself. And it's so fascinating that this matches the biblical account because the cattle were the fundamental source of the manna in this emissions and chemical compounds in the air and all of this. And so why was it not there on Sundays?

I just have to bring this up. We've gone through all this on previous podcasts, but let's just, we just have to hit it again because it's so fascinating.

Steve:
It's a real point to make it really look like a myth, right? I mean, it's going to be every day of the week except on Sundays.

Jennifer:
Except when you all were supposed to not go out and work and gather the manna.

Steve:
I remember when Dr. Aardsma gave the hint to us that he was onto this. And that was my first question. I was like, how in the world is he going to show that this wasn't available on Sundays, but it was available every other, through the scientific method, right? And he does.

Jennifer:
And comes up with a hypothesis that explains that. I mean, that's not the easiest thing in the world. But then once you do it, you're like, oh, well, that makes sense.

Steve:
Makes sense now. Now, we keep saying Sunday, but we really mean the Sabbath day, their day of rest, which actually would be Saturday. But you know what we mean. Not really Sunday, but their Sabbath day.

Jennifer:
Okay. So we know that according to the Jewish law, they did not bring the cattle back in, in the evenings, on the evening of the Sabbath, right? They stayed out to pasture so that the flocks could eat and they could rest and not break the Sabbath laws. So the cattle were not surrounding the camp the evenings of the Sabbath to contribute those emissions to the air for the manna to be on the ground the next morning. The cattle were all way, way out in the fields.

Steve:
Only on that one night. Because of the law of God.

Jennifer:
Now, you know, that's, that's pretty strong part of your hypothesis there, along with the fact that you can make the manna and hold it in your hand. So there's that. And then also, um, it would spoil if left open overnight. I did this. We got some of the manna made in the lab, put it in a little dish, left it outside when it was humid, as it always was in the desert in the evenings, uh, with all those people and everything. And sure enough, the next morning, it had just melted down into a little puddle. And if I would have left it all day and flies and everything else, it would have gotten stinky. And that's exactly what the Bible describes. So all of these things, you know, this isn't just like, Oh, I have a white substance. It must be manna. No, it's much more detailed than that. And that's in the book. And so whether you like the result or hate the result, no matter how you feel about it, we did go through the scientific method and apply it to something that we learn about in the Bible.

Steve:
So it's possible for all of us in life to be very, very sure of ourselves, very sure about something. And, and we do have to land somewhere, right? I mean, especially as a Christian, I, I land somewhere that I know things to be true. But it is easy to be so sure about so many things and be absolutely wrong about it, because we haven't been honest or we haven't had enough information presented to us. But the question is when the information is given to you, the truth is staring you in the face, now what are you going to do? Are you going to be honest? Are you going to have courage? Do you really want the truth? And we all have to ask ourselves that question because so often when someone is presented with truth, what happens in an argument? Well that person's kind of backed into a corner. Now accusations start flying, character questions. So when it turns into that, okay, now we're just going to attack your character. Then we know, okay, are you really willing to listen to the truth that's being presented?

Jennifer:
You know, it's interesting. It's not just the skeptics that might struggle with this example of the scientific method being used on the manna, the biblical observations of manna. It's also, interestingly enough, some Bible believers who will put up resistance to this. Their reasoning is, well, I don't think that that was necessary to show that. You're taking away from God's glory when you try to say that this was just a natural substance.

Steve:
I had a man actually say that to me, and I get where he's coming from. But he actually said when you heard about the manna discovery and read it for himself, a Christian, I don't think he needed to do that.

Jennifer:
Right. And not just this one individual, but others. You know, you're not really supposed to go there. I mean, this is sacred territory. Like this is God doing something miraculous and now you're just trying to drag it down in the dirt or something.

Steve:
Or you're working on aging. You're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to cure aging because God would, God wouldn't. Wait a minute.

Jennifer:
Right. So regardless of where you fall and how this may offend you, the simple truth is that the scientific method can be applied to things in the Bible. It's God's universe and God can do things whatever way he wants. And if he wants to produce manna in a way that can naturally be explained, then I think to some segment of Christians at least that just brings all the more glory to God, because you realize that he's using principles within his own creation through this one time event in history. In this location in the world, to provide for the people, keep them from starving, teach them lessons about himself, all of this through his own principles built into creation from the dawn of time. So to me, that does not take away from God's glory at all.

Steve:
Well, and you also have people like our example today, who are looking for answers to their questions. They've been taught now in a secular society all their life, that the Bible is a bunch of myths, it's a bunch of fairy tales, and so they're filled with false certainties. And this maybe example of manna can be shown how practical, how useful this demonstration can be in showing a skeptic that, no, wait a minute, you need to rethink this book, this ancient book that we call the Bible, this information, this data that's in there.

Jennifer:
You at least need to admit that at least one time the scientific method has been successfully applied. So there we go. We feel that we have shown an example that answers the question, can science actually be used on the Bible?

Steve:
And if you say no, no, no, you guys are totally mistaken. This is wacky stuff. And you want to talk with us more about it and hey, send us a message, send us an email. You can get ahold of us in various ways on our social media.

Jennifer:
And if you have questions, feedback, whatever, get on our podcast website, thebcmessenger.com, send us an email or leave us a voice message there. And we would love to interact with you more, and maybe even have you come on the podcast and ask some of your questions. We would love that. So we're always open for discussion, interaction. We are not in the business over here of silencing anybody or ever saying, just believe your problem is that you're too proud. No, that is not our approach. We're happy to engage with you, and talk through things with you, and understand the doubts and questions that you may be working through.

Steve:
Until you get mean and nasty and then we'll turn you off.

Jennifer:
Our listeners would never do that.

Steve:
I don't know... We need to move on here. We are going to move forward now into our next section.

We have a research update on climate change. Now we just gave an example of applying the scientific method to the Bible. And hopefully you can understand how that demonstrated the reality of the Bible science method that is going on over here. And that example really, it's not small. It's a big deal, but it's a smaller thing than we're getting ready to talk about now. Something that you can actually hold in your hands. Something that affected the people in that day, and gives us evidence of the reality of the research here. What we're now about to enter into in this discussion is how this same Bible science method and research has led Dr. Aardsma to some realities, to some realizations about climate change. Something that is affecting us today in 2025 when this podcast is being recorded. And it is a very hot topic, and we're all trying to figure out what is going on in the weather patterns. What is going on with this climate change? The research here has led to some answers, some real answers that nobody's talking about because you can't get to these answers without taking seriously the science, ice core data we're going to talk about, and the Bible accounts. Specifically one account of something devastating that happened in this world that has everything to do with climate change that we know today called Noah's flood.

So we're moving from manna to global warming, and showing how this works together again, and something people better start paying attention to.

Jennifer:
Yes, again we are disassociated from any other groups who may try to make a connection between what they believe about Noah's flood and global warming. Any theories from those groups would be truncated at best. What we have here is a full and far reaching theory of climate change, and it does have implications for the top scientists today, for national leaders today, for civilization today, just to be honest. But we're not going to get into all of that. We are just going to talk about the second article that came out in the climate change series which was called "Bible Science Research Corrects Mistaken Climate Change Forecasts." So this is specifically pertaining to, what do we expect is going to happen. You can open up almost any source of information today, X, formerly Twitter, magazines, periodicals, news reports, and so often, you know, "This globe is headed toward an apocalypse because we are approaching this much warming and we are going to have runaway melting of the polar ice caps, and we are going to have this and that..." and just predicting basically the whole world just melting down because of this global warming. So that's the forecast that's being given by mainstream science.

Steve:
So just for clarity, Dr. Aardsma has written a total now of four articles on the topic of climate change. The first article is how Bible Science corrects mistaken climate change science. And then like you said, this second article, which is the one we're hitting today, has to do with the Bible Science Correcting Climate Change Forecasts.

Jennifer:
All right, so here's a summary of the new theory coming from the second article as he was setting the stage to talk about the forecast. Contrary to common misconception, the glaciers are not melting because of global warming. Rather, global warming is presently happening because the Arctic glaciers are melting.

Steve:
Okay, stop, time out, time out. Because... if you have preconceived ideas, right, this is what we talked about in our last topic, you can come at that statement right there and be, laughing face, laughing face, joke, joke. I have never heard this in my life. I already know that's the craziest statement I've ever heard in my life. Okay? So just a warning, you've got to be able to take new information.

Jennifer:
Are you open to new ideas?

Steve:
And think about it.

Jennifer:
Are you at least willing to let your mind be stretched in some direction?

Steve:
Okay, whatever side you're on... Global warming is presently happening because the Arctic glaciers are melting. That's a pretty wild statement.

Jennifer:
The more they melt, the warmer the globe's going to be. Because the more heat energy can be absorbed by the earth. Okay, so the glaciers, so this is back to Dr. Aardsma's writing here. The glaciers are melting. He said, "They were thinned by flooding with ocean water during Noah's flood 5,500 years ago and they have been experiencing net loss of ice at their margins ever since. The glaciers are adjusting their shape and size as a natural consequence of having been thinned. This is temporary and ultimately they will begin to grow again." So right there you get a little glimpse of the forecast. He says, "The thinning of the glaciers and the shrinking is temporary. Ultimately they will begin to grow again." Now why would he say that? Is he getting that from the Bible? Is the Bible showing him that the glaciers will grow again?

Steve:
Well no, the Bible is actually giving a different piece of information. What is showing us that the ice will grow again? Well, we have in science, what I've learned as I've read these articles, ice core data. We have had individuals who have spent a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of effort in a very uncomfortable, unpleasant location. To gather data for us to be able to study in this world and praise God for that. Kudos to these people who have given their lives, literally, to gathering this kind of data. And so we can study that. We can go back and look at that data and see... and Dr. Aardsma puts charts right there on his newsletters, these patterns of warming and cooling, warming and cooling over hundreds of thousands of years in Earth's history.

Jennifer:
Over the past 400,000 years, I think it is, there have been four or five distinct warming peaks where temperatures travel down. These are the average annual temperatures. Temperatures travel down, they travel back up, they peak, they travel down, and there's like a valley and then they travel back up. And the peaks look a little bit different each time. Some are very narrow, some are a little more broad. But there's no doubt that right now we are at the top of one of those peaks, or close to the top of one of those peaks. And so what he is saying is that this pattern that we see, we know what causes it. It is revealed to us because we know about the last time it happened, which was in Noah's flood.

Steve:
So that's where the Bible comes in to give information that we don't have anywhere else. What's causing the melt back of the ice glaciers that causes global warming over these patterns that keep happening over and over and over again? Hundreds of thousands of years. Something goes on in this Earth that causes flooding. It's an event that takes place. And he describes all of this in his book on the Flood in his now these articles. The core of the Earth is shifted. It's not stable. The inner core moves the waters from one area, they flood to the other area. And this melts the ice back causing temporary global warming until the ice comes back.

Jennifer:
And I love this point from the article that you bring up there that the ice will come back. He explains in this research article... if you want to give your kids or your class or something, an illustration of God's amazing creation.Do you know the Earth has built in a negative feedback loop for the warming and cooling of the Earth? It is not going to have runaway warming, because this is actually how it works in physics and science. The more the globe warms up, the more moisture goes up into the atmosphere. And the more it will snow at the poles. The snow at the poles is what causes the eventual regrowth of the glaciers. At one point in the article, it gives the illustration of pancake batter being poured into the middle of a frying pan. You can pour a little bit of batter and you will get a little pancake in the center. Pour more batter in the center and the pancake will thin out and grow along the edges until you have a much bigger pancake. This takes thousands and thousands of years, but this is what happens at the poles. So the warmer the globe is, the more moisture is produced through the evaporation and atmosphere. And then the more it snows at the poles and the more weight of snow eventually causes those glaciers to grow. And so God has built in a system of checks and balances in the Earth to keep it from overheating.

Steve:
Well, I don't know if we mentioned this yet, but what is it that's causing the globe to warm? Well, reflectivity is what cools things. So when there's lots of ice, lots of glaciers and ice sheets, then the sun is reflected. We all understand that principle. But when those glaciers melt back, now the heat is absorbed into the Earth more. So that's what's causing the global warming. The ice is melting back and there's not as much reflectivity causing the Earth to warm. So more of the heat. Once that ice grows back, then it begins to cool back down and the Earth is always wanting to cool back down because of what you described there.

Jennifer:
Right. That is the natural thing that the Earth wants to do is cover itself with ice and cool down. And as mind-blowing as this is, as much as this stretches our mind, the thing that causes the glaciers to stop growing is what we are calling "noahic events". Where some portion of the globe is flooded through this thing that happens in the Earth that's reported in Genesis, that we thankfully have this record of... that flooding checks the growth of the glaciers. And then once the glaciers recede enough through multiple noahic events, over very long periods of time, then eventually they will begin to grow back.

So it's interesting. Venus is considered the twin planet of the Earth, but does not have this negative feedback loop, and the temperature there is 800 degrees, I believe it says in the article. So again, God has created life on this planet and it's incredible.

Steve:
Alright so we've given quite a bit of information on the theory of climate change that's here, maybe more than we wanted to. But there you go in somewhat of a nutshell. You can go back and read, you can study this, the initial article especially that Dr. Aardsma wrote. But the second article is talking about forecasts.

Jennifer:
Right. We said we were going to explain the forecast.

Steve:
We have everybody it seems like saying that we have an overheated world, catastrophic catastrophes just at the door. We saw this guy in New York in the...

Jennifer:
Some theater on Broadway.

Steve:
Yeah maybe it was Broadway and he's screaming in the middle of this play, "We're all going to die. The water is coming for us." Very serious. And he believes that. And so that's the forecast that we're getting. For example, Jim Ski, not sure how you say that, he has said that by 2100, if the current policies are maintained in our government, and by the way he is the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, he's warning that the world is headed toward 3C warming. Which means the global mean temperature of 3C degrees rising above its 1900 AD level. So in other words, the world is heating. If the policies remain the same, it's going to keep heating. And we're going to pass a point of no return. And the runaway melting of the ice sheets are going to dry out the rainforest in the Amazon, the sea levels are going to be at catastrophic levels. Millions of people will be displaced. So is all that true? That's the forecast that's being given to us.

Jennifer:
Dr. Aardsma says that from his Bible science vantage point, he sees merely alarmism, not facts or even legitimate science in these forecasts. And he has the advantage that his theory of climate change explains the warming peaks and cooling to be the same cause and effect that we are experiencing today. The mainstream science wants to bring in the fact that it's carbon dioxide emissions that are warming everything, which of course was not the case in the history of this earth. And so they're putting theory upon theory. And so if you think it is that, then you really can't predict what's going to happen because this is the first time it's been for this reason, apparently. Whereas Dr. Aardsma is saying we know what caused this. It's the same thing that caused it all through history here. And so I can say with certainty that we're going to have the same basic pattern that we've had in the past. So I can give a forecast that is not full of all of this alarmism.

Steve:
Based on the data. And that is Dr. Aardsma's forecast. You see in those ice core data that the earth warmed, responded by cooling back down, not by going on to melt the glaciers completely away and overheat the planet, with the negative feedback loop that's in the earth. The warming actually fed the glaciers, encouraging new growth. Anything which might cause the planet to heat up, including those greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide is counteracted by the growth of earth's glaciers. So the forecast here is, no, it's not being caused by carbon emissions, this global warming. The problem is not our cars burning fuel, not at all. The present global warming is a predictably delayed consequence of an event, a particular event we're calling a Noahic event, which is recorded in the biblical book of Genesis, known as Noah's Flood. Not by carbon emissions, greenhouse gases.

Jennifer:
So here's the forecast based upon all that is known through the Bible science research method. Number one, we have not yet reached the maximum temperature for the present deglaciation that we are currently in and experiencing as a world at this time. The temperature will continue to increase and that's what it's doing.

All right, second point of the forecast is, the maximum temperature, the top of this peak, may take centuries to achieve. So I mean, that's amazing that all of this warming that's going on, we may continue to have little bits of this, just a few degrees, you know, but they're measuring it very carefully, and it's going to continue to increase, maybe for even a few centuries.

Okay, then the next part of the forecast. The long-term average rise is going to be roughly two Celsius degrees. I won't get into all the technicalities there, but that's the average. Okay, so you hear people say it's going to go up to three, and it's going to do this or that. It may do some variations above and below this average two C rise, but that is the forecast, that the average rise above the baseline that they're using is going to be two degrees, two C degrees.

All right, and then, last couple points of the forecast here. The polar ice sheets are going to continue to shrink, but they are not going to disappear. We've already covered that. The reason why that is scientifically known.

Steve:
We see that through the pattern throughout earth's history.

Jennifer:
And then now this kind of is amusing to me. Point five, net growth of the glaciers, glaciation will resume by at most 2000 years from now, cooling earth back down once again. So whoever's around 2000 years from now will see the glaciers beginning to get larger again.

Steve:
We may not be able to live in Northern Illinois anymore.

Jennifer:
Yeah, I mean, if the glaciation gets that big, but I mean, that's probably farther out than 2000 years. We're just talking about growing up at the poles starting to expand again.

Steve:
Now, let me mention this because many are talking about this. What about all these worsening storms that we're seeing? What about the change that we're seeing? Things changing. We're not getting nearly the snow that we used to get in certain parts of the country and that we remember as a child, all of that.

Jennifer:
Well, these hurricanes that we had earlier in the season last fall, I guess it was, they were terrible. Some very bad heartbreaking things that happened. And then you open up your social media feed and it's like, we're the worst civilization ever because we are doing this to these people. We have caused it. What do we think? What is it going to take for us to finally stop doing this and destroying life?

Steve:
Right. So let me read to you just a little portion of Dr. Aardsma's article and give his answer to this, and then present some things that we may be doing that we think we're helping a problem, but we're actually exacerbating the issue. All right. So here's what Dr. Aardsma says about this, worsening of storms and hurricanes.

"Rising temperatures due to global warming, due to receding glaciers, which are due to noahic events, are sure to increase water vapor in the atmosphere, due to increased evaporation from the oceans, which is bound to drive more stormy weather and more severe storms."

That's got to be a run on sentence there, but this is scientific literature. So we'll give him a pass.

"But before blaming any observed increase in extreme weather events entirely on global warming, one should first stop and consider whether current efforts to reduce carbon emissions may also be responsible." Now a lot of people aren't going to like to hear this, but once again, you got to be faced with the truth if we're ever going to get to some of the answers.

Jennifer:
Well, you got to let your mind be stretched. I mean, this will stretch your mind in a new direction for sure.

Steve:
Here in Illinois, we have a lot of wind, and so they put up all these wind farms and you have all these turbines everywhere. And they're very impressive to look at. But a question might be, are we helping ourselves? Are we hurting ourselves? We also have solar panels everywhere that you see now. We drove by this massive solar farm the other day here in central Illinois. And so much of the land area just covered in these black solar panels. Well, what about these things? Are they helping us or are they hurting us?

Jennifer:
Right. We think that we are going to help the problem because we, as mainstream science, believes that they know the root of the problem, which they believe is all this carbon emissions and burning of the fossil fuels. So they are operating on that premise, which I think we already alluded to, false certainties are very dangerous things. So they feel very certain of this, and they're making all of these policies based upon the fact that we've got to stop burning the fossil fuels. So how can we do that? Well, we can use wind energy and we can use solar power. In that, Dr. Aardsma points out again from the vantage point of a, can I just say, a common sense physicist, that the earth does have its built in energy infrastructure. The winds on the earth cool the equator and help warm the poles, and helps bring a balance. He points out that putting up all these wind turbines is extracting energy out of the wind. So you are interfering with the global energy infrastructure that's there.

Steve:
Natural processes.

Jennifer:
Right. And so in so doing, and you can read the article if you want, I hope you will, he explains how this could very easily and very likely be contributing to the extreme weather events that we are experiencing, because we're messing with the wind patterns.

Steve:
Right. And let me mention something about the solar panels. I mean, if cooling of the planet is a result of reflectivity, okay, the ice spreading, the white reflective ice spreading, and we are over here putting up all these black solar panels all over the world on everybody's roofs and everybody's yard. We just put solar panels up at our house, just to be honest and someone talked us into it, and we're getting a good deal on that. But is that really going to help our problem if the issue is not the greenhouse gases, but the issue is the reflectivity? What happens when you put panels who, the sole purpose of those panels is to bring heat in, right, to get the energy in?

Jennifer:
Here's a little tidbit I did not know. You know, you think, oh, all that sunlight is being converted into electricity for my home. No, actually, only 20% of that sunlight is being converted by those panels. Four-fifths of that sunlight is just put off as heat energy. You are effectively warming the globe by soaking in all that heat.

Steve:
Exacerbating the problem. I mean, you've got these fields, these farm fields filled with solar panels all over the place. They're talking about putting these out in the desert, I think, maybe? I don't know. I heard that somewhere.

Jennifer:
That would be a better place for them than all the rich farmland of Illinois where I'm seeing them. I'll tell you that.

Steve:
We need food. So the point being simply here, and he talks about this again in his article, you know, if you don't have the right information, if you're believing a false narrative or a false certainty, it's not going to lead to good places. And policies can be enacted that are only harming and not helping. And you can see where this, you know, where does this end? And what kind of policies are we talking about down the road if we continue to believe false narratives? Now, are there things to be concerned about and issues to be dealt with? You better believe it. And we've sort of presented it here.

Jennifer:
And the forecast given in this article is with the assumption that no more Noahic events are going to happen during the timeframe forecasted here. And we went into all of that on our episode on climate change. So you'll have to go listen because it's way too long for us to get into today. But yes, I mean, there is cause for alarm, but not from what the mainstream narrative is wanting to tell us.

Steve:
So we'll leave you there today with that. And we do hope that your mind has been stretched. And with the example that we gave in our first section of the podcast, you can see the legitimacy of the Bible science method of research that's going on here, and where it leads, even into major topics like climate change.

Jennifer:
Now as far as our aging research section today, I think we are going to have to postpone that until next month's podcast.

Steve
It's getting a little long.

Jennifer:
I had a lot to share on that. Just a lot of interesting points and interactions with people and what I learned there in that environment of the health and wellness industry. Taking our vitamins, our vitamin discovery on the road, you know, and it was a great experience, but too much to share for this episode. So you'll have to wait with bated breath until the April episode comes out.

Steve:
We'll put it in the next episode. That's right.

Steve:
Well, at this point, we have our Helen's View section. And this month, Helen gives an encouraging word from a portion, a little portion of a book that she read some years ago.

Jennifer:
And then following the section from the book, she's going to be sharing somewhat of a tribute for her husband, Dr. Aardsma. And we were told that she decided to do this because he did just recently celebrate his 70th birthday on February the 18th, right at the time of the recording of this podcast. So she wanted to share some personal thoughts about Dr. Aardsma in tribute to him for his birthday.

Steve:
I hope you were encouraged by this month's Helen's View.

Helen:
Over the past year, I have been reading several books by John Piper, pastor and author, and have come to appreciate his writings. When I read the following quote, I thought of Gerald's staying power regarding finding vitamin X. I'm beginning the quote.

"I am glad for adrenaline. I suspect it gets me through lots of Sundays. But it doesn't do much for Mondays. I am even more thankful for my heart. It just keeps on being a humble, quiet servant. During good days and bad days, happy and sad, high and low, appreciated and unappreciated. It never lets me down. It never says I don't like your attitude, Piper. I'm taking a day off. It just keeps humbly lub-dubbing along.

Coronary Christians are like the heart in the causes they serve. Adrenal Christians are like adrenaline, a spurt of energy and then fatigue. What the church and the world need today is marathoners, not just sprinters. People who find the pace to finish the lifelong race. Oh, for coronary Christians, Christians committed to great causes, not great comforts. I plead with you to dream a dream that is bigger than you and your families and your churches. Undeify the American family and say boldly that our children are not our cause. They are given to us to train for a cause. They are given to us for a short season so that we can train them for the great causes of truth and mercy and justice in a prejudiced, pain-filled, perishing world.

My blood is boiling on this issue of rugged, never-say-die, coronary Christian commitment to great causes, because I've been brimming these days with the life of William Wilberforce. Now he was a coronary Christian in the cause of racial justice. He was deeply Christian, vibrantly evangelical, and passionately political in the House of Commons over the long haul in the fight against the African slave trade.

On October 28, 1787, he wrote in his diary at the age of 28, 'God Almighty has set before me two great objects, the suppression of the slave trade and the reformation of morals.' In battle after battle in Parliament, he was defeated because the trade was so much woven into the financial interests of the nation. But he never gave up and never sat down. He was coronary, not adrenal. On February 24, 1807, at 4 a.m., 20 years later, the decisive vote was cast. Yes's, 283, no's 16, and the slave trade became illegal. The House rose almost to a man and turned towards Wilberforce in a burst of parliamentary cheers while the little man with the curved spine sat head-bowed, tears streaming down his face.

The coronary Christian, William Wilberforce, never gave up. There were keys to his relentlessness, the greatness and certainty and the rightness of the cause sustained him. Abolishing the slave trade was, quote, 'the grand object of my parliamentary existence.' He saw that adrenal spurts would never prevail, quote, 'I daily became more sensible that my work must be affected by constant and regular exertions rather than by sudden and violent ones.' He had learned the secret of being strengthened, not stopped, by opposition.

One of his adversaries said, quote, 'he is blessed with a very sufficient quantity of that enthusiastic spirit, which in so far from yielding that it grows more vigorous from blows.'

Most of all, the secret of his coronary commitment to the great cause was his radical allegiance to Jesus Christ. He prayed, and may this prayer rouse many coronary lovers of Christ, to fight racism, abortion, hunger, ignorance, poverty, homelessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, crime, corruption, violence, AIDS, apathy, unbelief with unwavering perseverance, quote, 'May God enable me to have a single eye and a simple heart, desiring to please God, to do good to my fellow creatures, and to testify my gratitude to my adorable redeemer.'"

This was from John Piper's book, Life as a Vapor.

Part two.

Most of you listeners have never met Gerald. You have heard his voice on this podcast, and you have read my posts about him, but you only know a small part of who Gerald is. I'm sure you have heard the expression "brilliant physicist." Gerald is one of the real brilliant physicists. As I sit down together with Gerald as we eat our meals, or take our walks, it doesn't really do that much for me or our marriage that he is one of those brilliant physicists. What really is meaningful to me is that he is a real Christian, a Jesus lover. He is not full of philosophies or theologies or self-righteous Bible quoting. A real Christian is one who says, "My life for yours" on a minute-by-minute basis, every single day. You know, the kind of very busy person that gives a cup of cold water to a thirsty child, or listens to his wife chat on and on and on and on about this or that as she winds down for the day.

I thought I would share with you a recent example of how Gerald lives his life apart from figuring out the age of the earth or proofs that Noah's flood was a real event. Early one workday morning, a few weeks back, I got an urgent text from a family member saying that their heat was not working. The house was getting cold fast. It was one of those 20 below Fahrenheit days. And could dad help with that? I was in the middle of a big project with two employees, and they were on hold as I tried to help as best I could. I had to remind myself that there are no interruptions, only divine appointments. After getting a complete picture of the problem with a few texts back and forth, I went to Gerald in his office and told him the problem. Gerald has a strict rule that he is not to be disturbed in the mornings, as this is his writing and research time. But knowing this was urgent, I knocked on his office door, and like Esther said to myself, if I perish, I perish.

Gerald gave me a few suggestions to fend off the crisis until more detailed deciphering of the problem could take place. He went back to the basement to work in the lab. When he came up for his morning break, Apple and Granola Bar and answering emails, he asked me how the furnace situation was going. He texted the person with the problem and then thought about steps that needed to be taken to figure out what was triggering the breakers in the breaker box. Gerald organized some tools and then patiently showed the person how to use the tools. He gave direction for the first step to be taken. There were many texts back and forth as each step was accomplished. Gerald would then decide which step to take next.

After several hours went by and many long texts through our lunchtime meal, Gerald's diagnosis was finally complete. He figured out what parts needed to be ordered, and once the parts arrived, Gerald assembled the next set of tools for them and walked them through the steps on how to use the tools and how to put the new parts in. All in all, Gerald spent about a half a day on this problem, saving our family member probably hundreds of dollars for a furnace repairman or an electrician.

"If I know all mysteries and have all knowledge, but do not have love, I am nothing." Zilch, nada, zero, shum, devar, rye, nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. If there is knowledge, it will be done away with. But now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, but the greatest of these is love. Yes, Gerald is one of those real Christians.

Jennifer:
Well, if your mind has been stretched by today's episode, go on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen, leave us a review. It would help this information to be able to reach more people if you would just take a moment, leave us a comment, a review there would be greatly appreciated.

Steve:
And we're very thankful that you are a part of this audience listening to this podcast. Please spread the word, share our podcast with other people, and get more on board with these topics that certainly deserve a place around the table of conversation. And until next time, thank you for joining us. We'll see you in April.

Jennifer:
As fast as time is moving along, that will be here before we know it. And April, of course, holds the holiday of Easter. One of my girls recently said to me, "Mom, when I think about Easter, it just gives me a happy feeling." And that is kind of the feeling you have as you think about spring coming.

Steve:
That's right.

Jennifer:
And before we know it, we'll be back with you again with another episode of the BC Messenger.

Steve:
Thanks for joining us.